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210 vs 250 or smaller for LOS beginner build
#1
First a big thanks to Oscar for you site.  I was struggling to find information and your site has been a life saver.

So new to Quads and been flying my Nano around the house and outside on calm days.  Getting better.  I feel like I fly much better outdoors because it gives me space to make corrections.  So I am looking to build a quad to fly outside.  I started RC years ago with a Tamiya Hornet (with Mechanical speed controller!!!) build and it helped me to understand how everything worked.  So want to do the same with a quad.  

I want to do a LOS quad build to hone my flying skills in and not break gear when I crash.  So I want to build a stable good flying LOS quad that is not too overpowered.  At a loss for whether to go with 210 or 250 ZMR frame or perhaps something smaller.  Looking for stability and ease of flying the most.  When the time comes and I am confident I will build an FPV quad.  So I plan on investing in a Taranis x9D plus from the start.  Would rather buy quality up front than paying double down the road.

Thanks for the help!
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#2
one year ago i would probably tell you to get the ZMR250, but now there are so many choices it's hard to say Smile

Size: I would recommend a 210/220 (aka 5" frames), I found they are more agile with similar efficiency with proper motor/prop match.
The two 5" frames I reviewed previous and really like are the DemonRC Nox5 and Speed Addict 210. Each with different features, just check which suits you more.
https://oscarliang.com/demonrc-nox5-frame/
https://oscarliang.com/speed-addict-210-frame/

you said you don't want a over powered setup... then i would probably recommend some 2205/2204 2300KV motors.
Good thing about them is you can tweak the power by using different props, at first try 5030 for moderate speed, later on you can use 5045 BN or 5040 Triblades for some faster action Smile

ESC: XM20A/30A if you are going to use Cleanflight/Betaflight/Raceflight.
But if you are getting the KISS FC, then consider KISS 24A ESC, the ESC telemetry is very useful.

battery: 4S all the way Smile don't waste your money on 3S.

TX/RX: Taranis with X4R or XSR (SBUS) is the way to go.
Don't be a LOS'er, be an FPV'er :)  My Gear - Facebook - Instagram - Twitter
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#3
So have been reading around the forum a lot for the last couple of days and 180mm frames have brought up a few more questions.

Would a 180 frame be a good place to start? Are 210 frames more stable?

From reading it seems like a the lighter smaller motors and frames of the 180 "could" result in less damage when crashing. Also it seems to be a little cheaper to build.

When comparing a beginner quad, would I get more efficiency with 4" or 5" props-------> longer flight times?

Thanks
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#4
(07-May-2016, 09:00 PM)Register Wrote: So have been reading around the forum a lot for the last couple of days and 180mm frames have brought up a few more questions.

Would a 180 frame be a good place to start?  Are 210 frames more stable?

From reading it seems like a the lighter smaller motors and frames of the 180 "could" result in less damage when crashing.  Also it seems to be a little cheaper to build.  

When comparing a beginner quad, would I get more efficiency with 4" or 5" props-------> longer flight times?

Thanks

 If you choose a 180, you will probably be limited to 4" props.

There are a lot of variables involved when it comes to "longer flight times".  If you will be building your own quad, I think the most important variable for "flight time" is to keep your build light.  This would apply to any size.  (My first FPV quad is a 160 that I have kept to under 250 grams.)  When you select and assemble components (including batteries) there will always be tradeoffs to consider.  That 1800mAh 75C 4 cell might be a monster, but it also has to pull around its own weight as well as the quad's.  Do some research on each component to see what tradeoffs you are willing to make.  FWIW, my little 160 only gets about 5 minutes of gentle flying, but it is plenty stable for me and handles the wind ok (for me).
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#5
sloscotty is correct, a 180 frame will pretty much limit you to 4 inch props, which is not a bad thing really.

The 180's are great quads to fly, and again as sloscotty said, try and keep weight down as much as possible if you are trying to extend flight times. Truth is, once you get really going flying you will burn through a Lipo pretty quick, I go through a 4S 1300mAh lipo anywhere from 3 to 4 minutes, even sooner if I go mental..LOL

The 210's as Oscar said is pretty much the sweet spot (for me anyway), 5 inch props and similar weight to a 180 .. Both sizes are super fine to fly.
My youtube channel

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#6
What are your guys thoughts about a 150mm build like an Airblade ZMR150? Since I am only doing LOS it looks like I could build it up pretty cheap with decent components. I am pretty sure I cant go wrong any way I go. Anything is going to be a step up from my current quad.
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#7
Keep in mind, that while building a 3" You will have to keep things extremely small, light and as tidy as You can. I'm not saying that You will not build it, Just pointing that unless You have some experience in soldering electronics, it can be a bit harder.

EDIT:
also if You plan on going LOS only, a bigger quad will help You keep orientation during flight, but that depends on how far You are planning to fly.
The cost of building a 150 is roughly the same as of a bigger quad as we basically use almost the same components, just smaller motors, lipos and some bits/pieces.
Find me on Youtube and Instagram. I currently fly: DRC Aura, NOX5R, Minimalist 112 and drive a scrap RC car
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#8
I guess I am just afraid of crashing and breaking a $70-$100 frame. I was looking at the tweaker 180mm frame and smaller because of replacement cost. But I think you are all right and I should just listen and stop trying to do things differently, lol. I appreciate the help and input from everyone.

So I was looking around and saw the Lumenier QAV-R frame. So a little more up front but it may solve my concerns about crash replacement parts.
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#9
(09-May-2016, 04:18 PM)Register Wrote: I guess I am just afraid of crashing and breaking a $70-$100 frame.  I was looking at the tweaker 180mm frame and smaller because of replacement cost.  But I think you are all right and I should just listen and stop trying to do things differently, lol.  I appreciate the help and input from everyone.

I almost got that frame.  The Tweaker 180 Addiction Edition has a 4mm bottom plate and is on sale right now at ReadyMadeRC for $45.  That should stand up to a lot of beginner "abuse"  Big Grin
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#10
Another great choice for a LOS beginner is the Hobbyking FPV250 http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store..._kit_.html

It's cheap, pretty undestructable and flies ok, plus is an X frame and for Acro moves is really good.
I built one when I replaced the cobra 2300 kv motors and the DYS 20A ESC on my ZMR250.
I must say, it's really fun to fly with it, I really don't care about crashes as its plastic is strong.
The only change I've made is to add four standoffs to lift the upper cage, in order to have more space inside.
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#11
(11-May-2016, 03:59 PM)raid Wrote: Another great choice for a LOS beginner is the Hobbyking FPV250 http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store..._kit_.html

It's cheap, pretty undestructable and flies ok, plus is an X frame and for Acro moves is really good.
I built one when I replaced the cobra 2300 kv motors and the DYS 20A ESC on my ZMR250.
I must say, it's really fun to fly with it, I really don't care about crashes as its plastic is strong.
The only change I've made is to add four standoffs to lift the upper cage, in order to have more space inside.

this frame was one of my first mini quad frames actually haha Smile
but i am sorry to say it's very easy to break the arms... I must replace about 4 of them in the first 6 months i was using it... after than I went for the ZMR250 and noticeable it was stronger than the FPV250, even the ZMR250 is pretty easy to break for today's standard...
Don't be a LOS'er, be an FPV'er :)  My Gear - Facebook - Instagram - Twitter
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#12
(11-May-2016, 09:35 PM)Oscar Wrote: this frame was one of my first mini quad frames actually haha Smile
but i am sorry to say it's very easy to break the arms... I must replace about 4 of them in the first 6 months i was using it... after than I went for the ZMR250 and noticeable it was stronger than the FPV250, even the ZMR250 is pretty easy to break for today's standard...

Really? I've fallen from around 15 meters and not a scratch...
Anyway, you spent 35€ to replace all four frames Wink
Today it's really hard to choose the right frame.
For LOS I think something like warpquads or lower profile X frames in general, is probably the way to go.
By the way, if your first buy will be an X frame like the Alien Frame or the QAV-R (or any of their clones) you can add the fpv gear whenever you like and you are ready to go.
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#13
(11-May-2016, 10:01 PM)raid Wrote: Really? I've fallen from around 15 meters and not a scratch...
Anyway, you spent 35€ to replace all four frames Wink

money wasn't a problem, the effort/time/frustration were Big Grin
it got annoying that it breaks middle of the session and I had to go home with fully charge lipos haha
Don't be a LOS'er, be an FPV'er :)  My Gear - Facebook - Instagram - Twitter
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#14
(11-May-2016, 10:03 PM)Oscar Wrote: money wasn't a problem, the effort/time/frustration were Big Grin
it got annoying that it breaks middle of the session and I had to go home with fully charge lipos haha

Ahaha I totally agree with your point of view Wink))
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