I am not mustache guy's biggest fan.  With that said, I will say he has some down to earth advice in this video.



He's right, you can have the most "vibration free" frame in the world, stick a flabby antenna on there and there goes your perfect frame.  I do agree that there are diminishing returns at some point.

I actually have the AOS5, which I have just finished building, it flies well in my limited opinion. I do agree that its a lot of different factors and I don't see a great deal of difference from the Roma 5, iFlight Nazgul 5 but that it likely down to my tuning ability, flying ability and other factors.

What I didn't like was the way he went about the video and the constant 'I don't want to be negative'. You have to ask yourself 'What does 'Mr Steele' get out of making the video and did he really need to make it at all. Fine, have a laugh with your friends about it, but to absolutely slate the frame has consequences, just not for Steele, as he doesn't really watch any YouTube FPV videos. I know it will make not a blind bit of difference, but Steele lost a subscriber today.

I contacted Chris Rosser, who was actually very helpful and even remixed a gopro mount to an Insta360 mount for me.

The video definitely wreaked of arrogance which is why I'm not that dude's biggest fan. It's like, reality check, you fly a toy, kid.

And while I do agree to some extent with the mustache with legs, I take my hat off to Rosser for taking the time to share his knowledge. Yea, it's half marketing - that is def not lost on me. But it adds wayyyyy more value than any marketing Ethix or ImpulseRC has come up with ... *ouch*. lol

The one thing I think Rosser is missing on his frames is a good antenna mount.

When I was picking parts for my latest build of a 3.5" I looked at the AOS 3.5. I went with a different frame due to the weight of the AOS35 and the complete lack of any antenna mounts. He just tapes them to the carbon of the rear arms, and for the distances I fly that would probably work fine, but I just prefer a more "finished" look of a nice solid TPU mount designed to go with the frame and holds antenna in place. I could have just designed my own and had Brain3D print it for me, but for the price of the frame feel like a TPU mount on the rear standoffs for the Vista antenna should be included.

I think Rosser has them taped to the rear arms like that(in Rosser's AOS 3.5 video) so that there isn't any antenna wobble. But Steele is right that an antenna sticking out freely in the back like in that video will introduce it's own vibrations/noise.

I do like that Rosser pays attention to the stiffness of the frame, and not just looks. I will keep an eye on his frames in future.

(06-Sep-2021, 06:49 PM)MrSolo Wrote: The one thing I think Rosser is missing on his frames is a good antenna mount.

When I was picking parts for my latest build of a 3.5" I looked at the AOS 3.5.  I went with a different frame due to the weight of the AOS35 and the complete lack of any antenna mounts.  He just tapes them to the carbon of the rear arms, and for the distances I fly that would probably work fine, but I just prefer a more "finished" look of a nice solid TPU mount designed to go with the frame and holds antenna in place.  I could have just designed my own and had Brain3D print it for me, but for the price of the frame feel like a TPU mount on the rear standoffs for the Vista antenna should be included.

I think Rosser has them taped to the rear arms like that(in Rosser's AOS 3.5 video) so that there isn't any antenna wobble.  But Steele is right that an antenna sticking out freely in the back like in that video will introduce it's own vibrations/noise.

I do like that Rosser pays attention to the stiffness of the frame, and not just looks.  I will keep an eye on his frames in future.

I actually like the look of the frame, but thats a good thing or the world would be a dull place to live, if everyone had the same opinions. I even agree with some of what Steele has to say, what I didn't agree with it the way he went about it and as Ronin has pointed out, it wreaked arrogance. 

I do agree about the lack of 3d mounted parts. I have just bought the Falcon 7" frame and the designer has designer all of the 3d printed parts for it before release. However, Chris Rosser was very helpful when I contacted him through his website. He replied very quickly and I'm sure he would remix an antenna mount, if needed.

I think the AOS is a cool looking frame, too. I like that it is different than the same old recipe most designers use. I ended up going with an Avio 3.5", but I would definitely try a frame from Mr Rosser in the future.

Never built an AOS myself, but I disagree with Steele that it looks like a hassle to build in. It is a twin stack design(2x 20x20 for the aos3.5, 2x 30x30 for 5"). How could it possibly be any easier, even with a vista. I ended up going with the Avant Avio 3.5", which I would say is much harder to build in, as it uses an AIO with the vista mounted above it suspended from the top plate, and is a very compact frame. Compared to that the AOS seems like a super easy/roomy build.

(06-Sep-2021, 06:40 PM)the.ronin Wrote: The video definitely wreaked of arrogance which is why I'm not that dude's biggest fan.  It's like, reality check, you fly a toy, kid.

And while I do agree to some extent with the mustache with legs, I take my hat off to Rosser for taking the time to share his knowledge.  Yea, it's half marketing - that is def not lost on me.  But it adds wayyyyy more value than any marketing Ethix or ImpulseRC has come up with ... *ouch*.  lol

Steele is an amazing pilot but you get to a point where you've seen enough flight videos and there are MANY great pilots on YT to the point it gets monotonous to watch flight videos. His demeanor is off putting for the info type videos and you know that there are dozens of other guys you can watch to get that content. To contrast with Rosser he provides a wealth of good info and has done a better job of explaining some of these topics better than so many other YT channels. I've bought his AOS5 just for that reason as a backup for whenever my Nazgul gets wrecked. I'd rather he get the sale in support of his channel. Funny thing is Rosser is specifically addressing some of the main gripes he had.

Honestly I unsubscribed his channel because of this video. He had some points but it seems to me like he thinks his frame is god over anybody else and the price proves it. Rosser even praises the Apex in his resonance video. How you gonna get but hurt because someone puts out a frame that becomes popular and apparently flies pretty good.  I'm done with Steele. Bye Felicia!

... although ...

... at the end of that video, Rosser goes on to suggest that perhaps, just perhaps, the so called "Coulomb friction" that he attributes as the Apex's secret sauce was in fact ... unintentional.  BAHAHAHA I busted out laughing when he said that with his unassuming British accent thinking to myself, touché, good sir!  Touché!!  

Steele is just Steele. We all know he has a brand that he supports. He can be arrogant at times (most of the time). But regardless its an opinion for whatever the underlying reasons there may be. Should he be conservative about his opinions? No why should he?

The true measure of success of the AOS frame is when a majority of freestyle pilots will be flying his frame. It may be too early to see this happen and it may never happen.

Take for example the Five33 Switchback Pro developed by Evan Turner and Armando (his aerospace engineer fleet manager). Several top pilots out there were flying the Switchback Pro this year. Pilots such as Chief with their own signature frames moved to it. That tells me a lot more about the frame than I need to know.

Rosser ran a frame resonance analysis on the Switchback Pro frame and suggested that if the arms can be made thicker that it will improve the vibrations. No one seemed to care. Some top pilots even commented saying the frame resonance he is talking about does not even matter to them.

Take this as a joke please and do not grill me over what I am saying cause it was a silly thought in my head but I am sure you will find what I am trying to explain:

In our hobby if someone attempts to clone your frame then it means its that good a product.

Do I need to prove this in the example of the Five33 Switchback Pro:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005002191744929.html



Even the cloners admire the original design

And for the record, I do not support cloners and I have ordered the original SwitchBack Pro frame from Five33 via the TBS store.

WOW!!  They don't even bother to change the name anymore and just call it a clone LOLLL.  And then a suggestion to buy from the original website since they "admire the design" BAHAHAHA ... Evan Turner be like ... uh, thanks?  BAHAHAHA  

Not that I am supposing my frames are of the same caliber but I did have overseas shops sign an non-disclosure agreement (NDA) before I sent them even a sample file.  I was surprised that some pushed back with their own NDA that was actually quite thorough.  Don't get me wrong, it's not lost on me that NDA's don't really do anything (not just not in  China but really, not in the U.S. either with good enough lawyers) but it is a necessary insurance policy for any stakeholder should things go south.

Unfortunately an NDA agreement with a carbon cutter is worth diddly squat. Most of the cloners (who will often have no connection to or relationship with the original cutter) just take a popular frame apart and then trace or 3D scan it to replicate it. Then they just cut their own version and sell it. The only out-of-pocket expense they had was to buy one of the original frames in order to create the clone, and unless the original designer has very deep pockets to take up a legal fight in a foreign country then no-one can touch the cloners because they are based in a country where intellectual property and copyright means virtually nothing.

Indeed.

(07-Sep-2021, 04:33 PM)the.ronin Wrote: Don't get me wrong, it's not lost on me that NDA's don't really do anything (not just not in  China but really, not in the U.S. either with good enough lawyers) but it is a necessary insurance policy for any stakeholder should things go south.

But you still need one. In my other suit and tie life, you'd be amazed what they are used for to very good effect that has little to do with actually protecting your intellectual property. Just as a quick and one example out of many - things go south with your funding source then the first question they'll ask is, what measures have you taken with your IP? Like I said, it is a necessary insurance policy. Put another way, it's good at practically everything *but* what it's actually designed for. I hope that makes sense. One can write an entire dissertation on this topic.

Yea this guy's a douche.



His video was more laughable than anything.  But this response is first rate narcissism.  He could've manned up, apologized or heck, stood his ground.  But this "any publicity is good publicity" is some toxic narcissist sh*t that I and *many* others here in the U.S. have had quite enough of.

Hopefully someone finds Steele's secret stash of child porn.  Hey any publicity is ...